So who was following scientific advice in 2019 with the NSRA report?

If anyone still needs evidence that Trump’s idiocy has gone beyond satire, ...

 

https://local.theonion.com/man-just-buying-...se-t-1842493766

 

This was published a month ago.

I guess this is what they mean by natural selection.

What is all this about direct sunlight killing corona? Or is it a Trump 'antidote'?

A falsehood propagated by blog posts and some US political figures that should know better, that apparently sprung up after twisting some of the as yet not certain results that the spread is marginally slower in warmer weather, which would just be if true, harsher conditions for the virus and not the ultraviolet light/dangerous chemical instakill that idiotic presidents seem to think it is.

 

or in summation:

 

@1253705434780893184

 

(that board is just begging to be misinterpreted anyway)

Having said that, grain of truth, fresh air WAS touted as v beneficial for the Spanish flu, right?

So the Uk passes 20k hospital deaths today an outcome expected by Patrick Vallance on the 17/3 but we are past that with at least another month of continued figures to come. What has the Uk and America got so wrong?

Two very similar countries ending up with a rather different curve due to slower reactions in Britain in mid-March - less than 200 coronavirus hospital deaths in France today compared to 813 in Britain.

The rest of the world sees the UK as a basket case surpassed only by the USA in it's response to Covid-19.

 

Our media is largely failing to hold the government to task for it's inept handling. That Piers Morgan is one of the leading critical lights of both the UK and US handling (Trump has just blocked him for criticising his deadly suggestions about bleach injections) really should be waking everyone up to what is going on - the whitewashing of those responsible for having the worst death rates in the world.

 

AND IT HASN'T DROPPED YET WEEKS INTO LOCKDOWN.

 

Random testing (which may or may not be biased in some way) seems to suggest around 3% of the population has the covid-19 antibodies and there is no data to yet prove that prevents you getting it again (you are more likely to die if you receive larger doses of the virus - see Doctors and Nurses dying). germany seems to be about 12-15% have the antibodies, which may well be a more accurate ratio generally. I'm going to repeat "Herd immunity" means accepting, at BEST, the deaths of another 130,000 or so UK citizens spread out over however long it takes. At worst (if it really is 3%) errr, 5 times 130,000.

 

Plus it's not just dying. Recovery takes ages for some people (eg a 39-year-old fit fireman is alive but struggling to walk).

 

As we see people demonstrating to end the lockdown in the USA, I suggest everyone worldwide who wants to go back to normal life and sod those who would prefer not to risk dying to all just sign an agreement not to take up hospital beds, go on a massive festival bender, snog everyone is sight, get it over with, and let the rest of us see what percentage die or are seriously ill for months afterwards. Practical scientific results. On the plus side, you can go back to work along with everyone else that has had it, and that'll also free up some jobs for those that have lost one as a result of the lockdown. A bit like playing Russian Roulette with a gun which has 100 bullet chambers and one bullet - only not as quick, and a much more prolonged and unpleasant a death.

 

 

Did everyone see Priti Patel today announcing she was proud that shoplifting had reduced year on year :lol:

Did everyone see Priti Patel today announcing she was proud that shoplifting had reduced year on year :lol:

I was expecting them to come up with an announcement that was designed to keep the figure of 20,000 deaths off tomorrow's front pages. I'm not convinced that particular story will do it.

The rest of the world sees the UK as a basket case surpassed only by the USA in it's response to Covid-19.

 

Our media is largely failing to hold the government to task for it's inept handling. That Piers Morgan is one of the leading critical lights of both the UK and US handling (Trump has just blocked him for criticising his deadly suggestions about bleach injections) really should be waking everyone up to what is going on - the whitewashing of those responsible for having the worst death rates in the world.

 

AND IT HASN'T DROPPED YET WEEKS INTO LOCKDOWN.

 

Random testing (which may or may not be biased in some way) seems to suggest around 3% of the population has the covid-19 antibodies and there is no data to yet prove that prevents you getting it again (you are more likely to die if you receive larger doses of the virus - see Doctors and Nurses dying). germany seems to be about 12-15% have the antibodies, which may well be a more accurate ratio generally. I'm going to repeat "Herd immunity" means accepting, at BEST, the deaths of another 130,000 or so UK citizens spread out over however long it takes. At worst (if it really is 3%) errr, 5 times 130,000.

 

Plus it's not just dying. Recovery takes ages for some people (eg a 39-year-old fit fireman is alive but struggling to walk).

 

As we see people demonstrating to end the lockdown in the USA, I suggest everyone worldwide who wants to go back to normal life and sod those who would prefer not to risk dying to all just sign an agreement not to take up hospital beds, go on a massive festival bender, snog everyone is sight, get it over with, and let the rest of us see what percentage die or are seriously ill for months afterwards. Practical scientific results. On the plus side, you can go back to work along with everyone else that has had it, and that'll also free up some jobs for those that have lost one as a result of the lockdown. A bit like playing Russian Roulette with a gun which has 100 bullet chambers and one bullet - only not as quick, and a much more prolonged and unpleasant a death.

 

But it's a complete double-edged sword, what can we do? If Germany have 12-15% of the antobodies then we're going to have 15-20% of the antibodies as clearly the vorus spread much quicker and aggrssively that the UK realised, so there will have been lots of silent carriers. There's no evidence to prove that catching the virus means you're immune, but there's no data which suggests you are not immune. If you don't at least have some antibodies after being infected then it goes against just about every virus ever known to humankind, which I find unlikely.

 

We can't just keep the country locked up for 12-24 months until we find a vaccine, which may or may not occur. New Zealand plan on basically isolating until there is a vaccine for example. Sweden seem to be taking on the herd immunity approach. We're going to have to start to open the country up one way or another otherwise we will be even more socially destroyed as a country.

 

in which case perhaps the best decision would be to come from the people democratically voting what they want to happen:

 

accept somewhere between 130,000 and 600,000 deaths and go back to normal (albeit in stages to prevent the NHS getting swamped in any particular week) or put it off as much as possible until there is a vaccine, even if that hits the economy worse than any Banking Crisis. It could be double those estimates of course - deaths in the UK by Easter were 17,000 above normal, so it's likely to be twice that now. Quarter of a million dead would be a good outcome.

 

It won't be back to normal BTW, people like me will still be self-isolating as much as possible, along with everyone at risk. Industry will still get hammered. Everytime there is a sudden massive weekly increase in deaths, especially over the thousand a day mark which we have already reached but managed to manipulate figures to keep it under that psychological "f***!" moment, when it does get reported, what happens then? Big Lockdown back again for another 2 months?

 

This is a huge wake-up call to all nations. If you can't self-isolate as a country and self-manage your economy then you are in the long run risking total wipeout when the Big One comes along that is both highly infectious, like Covid-19, and with a death toll more like 50%. Spanish Flu wasnt limited to elderly and vulnerable people, it was young people who had no defence against it. There will be another one, guaranteed. Ignoring nature and treating the natural world like a resource causes pandemics. Viruses mutate all the time and cause pandemics. Human beings do stupid stuff and cause pandemics. Those of us who have been warning of this for decades are not in the least surprised, nor are we remotely surprised that politicians used to short-termism planning don't listen and do what they need to do.

 

When it's over a lot of folk might want to move to New Zealand.....

I feel like a lot of the (public) discussion around what to do is missing out:

 

1) what we continue to not know about corona

 

2) the negatives of a continued lockdown & reduced public services on overall public health - delays in treatment & diagnosis of other conditions; people with preventable conditions avoiding hospital & worsening them; mental health; potential for people to fall into e.g. addiction; and things like a rise in domestic violence.

 

Personally I think we need a change from total lockdown soon in order to start to mitigate some of those other areas of concern.

A poll from Deltapoll about whether people think the ending the lockdown sooner is a worry has yielding some surprising results. The majority thinks the government is moving too quickly to end the lockdown, but the split between age/political party was the opposite of what I expected, with millennials being the least likely to worry about the lockdown ending sooner, and Conservative voters being the most worried about this. Obviously this is only one poll, and I haven't been able to locate the raw data as of yet, but it surprise me somewhat.

 

@1254342141884674048

 

 

We cannot stay in lockdown until/if there is a vaccine. That would mean the collapse of our society. No debate about that.

 

However, the reality is that by perhaps June we need to move towards a new normal to mitigate for the virus and this will mean social distancing, phased return to offices, shops opening by sector.

 

Until there are drug treatments and/or a vaccine that is the reality.

I feel like a lot of the (public) discussion around what to do is missing out:

 

1) what we continue to not know about corona

 

2) the negatives of a continued lockdown & reduced public services on overall public health - delays in treatment & diagnosis of other conditions; people with preventable conditions avoiding hospital & worsening them; mental health; potential for people to fall into e.g. addiction; and things like a rise in domestic violence.

 

Personally I think we need a change from total lockdown soon in order to start to mitigate some of those other areas of concern.

Yeah we obviously cant stay in lockdown until a vaccine is available. But loosening measures now would spiral the virus out of control. You'd need to make sure the virus calms down a bit before you loosen measures.

Lockdown cannot remain forever but I’d rather it remained right now until we can be a bit more confident that the virus has died down. This could be after another 3 weeks, perhaps slightly longer.

 

The government really should be showing us that they are working on the ‘next stage’. At the moment people are literally assuming after 3 weeks we’ll all just go back to normal which is insane. People were demanding schools return just the other week (children had only actually missed 10 school days at that point) and whilst this will have to be one of the first measures, I personally won’t be happy returning to work like that without a plan being in place to ensure my safety. I don’t want to be teaching 30 kids an hour in a cramped classroom with no social distancing or PPE. But I am happy to return to work if these things are addressed but we haven’t heard of any plans for this, just rumblings from the media that are no more than them testing the reaction of the public (they dropped the return to school angle once there was a decent sized outrage.)

 

The problem really is our untrustworthy government. They only tell us what they either think we want to hear or what will paint them in the best light.

 

Boris is back this week so maybe they’ll reveal some plans since he has to be the face of the good news if he’s going to get another majority in 4 years.

Why does the UK government refuse to include non hospital deaths where covid-19 has been detected in their official figures like many other countries do?

Why does the UK government refuse to include non hospital deaths where covid-19 has been detected in their official figures like many other countries do?

 

Because 40k looks a lot worse than 20k?