Interesting interview here with Richard Horton discussing the failures of the British State and the lessons that can be learnt for the next pandemic.

 

re the long posts, I simply don't find sentiments like "we are all in it together" "we are all making sacrifices" helpful when we are not all making the same sacrifices, and I stick to that.

 

I'm aware that others find those sentiments comforting and/or are embarrassed to talk about otherwise, so once again, we shall just have to agree to disagree on that remit.

 

To me it is simply a fact that if you are in the situation where the pandemic has not at all affected your income or put at risk keeping a roof over your head, then you are not having to deal with as much as someone who is in that situation, and to say otherwise is kind of reductive.

It is great news. Makes you wonder if more countries may follow the lead now and delay second doses, especially for the AZ vaccine.

 

These mutations are worrying as heck but I am hopeful science can outpace them. Perhaps I was a bit pessistic yesterday on here, but I still don't think it's wise to just abandon all social distancing and mask wearing advice and laws once the summer comes when most over 50s and vulnerable people are projected to be vaccinated. Not that anyone has suggested that yet.

Edited February 2, 20214 yr by ElevenSnake

re the long posts, I simply don't find sentiments like "we are all in it together" "we are all making sacrifices" helpful when we are not all making the same sacrifices, and I stick to that.

 

I'm aware that others find those sentiments comforting and/or are embarrassed to talk about otherwise, so once again, we shall just have to agree to disagree on that remit.

 

To me it is simply a fact that if you are in the situation where the pandemic has not at all affected your income or put at risk keeping a roof over your head, then you are not having to deal with as much as someone who is in that situation, and to say otherwise is kind of reductive.

 

But is that any reason to be resentful of the elderly and vulnerable? They didn’t ask to be the most affected by this virus and they certainly didn’t ask for everyone’s lives to be affected. Some people may be suffering more than others but that doesn’t mean they aren’t suffering and it also doesn’t mean they’ve done anything wrong. We were all where we were at the start of the pandemic and we can’t help what our circumstances were. I have been financially stable throughout this pandemic, are you equally resentful of me? Am I worth such scorn because I have a secure job?

 

I just think you’re being totally unfair.

I haven’t see any evidence of people 75 plus doing just whatever they like and setting bad examples. Most of them have been stuck in their homes, at least from what I have observed in my own community.

 

I wish I could say the same about my more elderly people in my community! :lol:

I wish I could say the same about my more elderly people in my community! :lol:

 

Well I suppose it isn’t one size fits all :lol: but I can definitely say it’s true of my village.

Honestly I can totally understand why there is a lot of anger. I get how frustrating and incredibly tedious the past 11 months have been, and both how and why it coalesces around large public figures like Colonel (Captain) Tom Moore, although it is hugely misdirected. As is the anger at minor transgressions from those heading to the beach in May or having a snowball fight in a park in Leeds last month. There are a minority of idiots and people from all ages and backgrounds who have acted selfishly, but the majority have followed the rules, the majority have made huge sacrifices for the benefit of others and have done so despite the absolutely dire performance of our government at getting a control of this pandemic. That is also despite being constantly gaslighted about their performance and how it's "not fair to compare against other better performing nations". Lockdowns are ultimately a blunt tool that solve nothing, we have ended up in a constant lock/release cycle because of complacency from government, their betting the house on a vaccine (which ... imagine for a second had one not appeared for several years... ) and because they squandered every single advantage that we had in the months leading up to the pandemic, and then failed to learn from mistakes. Please do not turn this into something that divides the public, we must remember who is really accountable for the mistakes that were made and the mess that we are in, the real power and decisions that could have changed our trajectory in this pandemic are held the government. Remember that anger the next time you vote.

But is that any reason to be resentful of the elderly and vulnerable? They didn’t ask to be the most affected by this virus and they certainly didn’t ask for everyone’s lives to be affected. Some people may be suffering more than others but that doesn’t mean they aren’t suffering and it also doesn’t mean they’ve done anything wrong. We were all where we were at the start of the pandemic and we can’t help what our circumstances were. I have been financially stable throughout this pandemic, are you equally resentful of me? Am I worth such scorn because I have a secure job?

 

I just think you’re being totally unfair.

 

Well, with respect,I don't see where the 'scorn' is coming from & I kinda feel like that's something you're projecting on me.

 

Observation of some people's different circumstances to me does not equal bullying or scorning them by pointing that out, from my perspective. It is just not pretending that something isn't existing.

 

As for resentment, I try personally not to resent anyone. But I would say that where resentment is most likely to rise is not just from people who have less directed to people who have more; but when those people who have more turn around to those who have less & try to claim that actually things are just as bad for them when patently they aren't.

 

Akin to 'money can't buy happiness' as an argument - it sure can't, but it definitely can remove A LOT of external sources of stress.

 

Besides that, totally agree with last post Dr B!

I would not resent anyone angry at lockdown (particularly as I'm in no position to do so), but it's certainly not affecting everyone equally and it's important to recognise that because there's going to be a lot of social problems in the country from those whose lives, professional AND personal, have been destroyed by lockdown.

 

From all I can tell, the ones breaking lockdown have been a minority and studies (though I must admit they're old studies from June) show that's it's marginally more older men than anyone else, which would fit with the few internet videos I've seen of lockdown sceptics out and about. But these are minor points as as Dr B says, most are largely supportive of the need to eradicate even now - the problem being that the first one just wasn't severe enough and just told people to stay home without doing the tracing and eliminating the virus on those who had to interact with the public - as well as not completely minimising the size of that group.

 

There needs to be pressure put upon the government to help those who've fallen through the cracks of their systems otherwise there could be a lot of suffering due from those who've given up a lot to help the elderly - and yes electorally it'd be nice if the elderly as a bloc remembered that come 2024.

Well, with respect,I don't see where the 'scorn' is coming from & I kinda feel like that's something you're projecting on me.

 

Observation of some people's different circumstances to me does not equal bullying or scorning them by pointing that out, from my perspective. It is just not pretending that something isn't existing.

 

As for resentment, I try personally not to resent anyone. But I would say that where resentment is most likely to rise is not just from people who have less directed to people who have more; but when those people who have more turn around to those who have less & try to claim that actually things are just as bad for them when patently they aren't.

 

Akin to 'money can't buy happiness' as an argument - it sure can't, but it definitely can remove A LOT of external sources of stress.

 

Besides that, totally agree with last post Dr B!

 

No one has said that everyone is suffering equally though. All I said was that we all wanted the same-the virus to go away. The only people benefitting in any way are the government’s chums who are making money off their useless contracts. They are the ones that need to be held to account. I don’t think it’s fair to fault people just because of what their circumstances happened to be at the beginning of a pandemic no one asked for. Though it’s important to recognise the different levels of suffering, I don’t see how it’s helpful to fuel divisions.

 

I simply don't think I have fueled divisions and as I say I feel that that is something you have read into anything I've said.

 

(Not to single you out but...this wouldn't be the first time on the forum someone has got the wrong end of the stick from something I said, hasn't challenged me then and there, and has then proceeded to keep reading my posts through that lens that isn't anything to do with where I'm coming from until they've built me up in their head as deliberately spreading an agenda...)

@1356876970181730307

 

We can all thank Steven Soderbergh for this.

@1356876970181730307

 

We can all thank Steven Soderbergh for this.

 

It is a bit worrying that our entire strategy was based off a movie.. :lol: :wacko:

It is a bit worrying that our entire strategy was based off a movie.. :lol: :wacko:

 

At least I now know Boris has been watching a lot of Mr Bean...

@1356876970181730307

 

We can all thank Steven Soderbergh for this.

 

I saw someone break into Buckingham Palace on The Crown so I think that’s what I’m gonna get up to this weekend!

I simply don't think I have fueled divisions and as I say I feel that that is something you have read into anything I've said.

 

(Not to single you out but...this wouldn't be the first time on the forum someone has got the wrong end of the stick from something I said, hasn't challenged me then and there, and has then proceeded to keep reading my posts through that lens that isn't anything to do with where I'm coming from until they've built me up in their head as deliberately spreading an agenda...)

 

Hey, we're all human here.

 

I think something the pandemic has exposed is the large (and growing) inequalities that exist - and highlighted how these inequalities are reinforced by the structures that our society sits within. There are absolutely massive inequalities in wealth, in health (life expectancy varies hugely between affluent and deprived areas) and the pandemic just amplified these. Just think about those who could not afford to self-isolate/miss work due to worries about being able to afford food and rent, those who could not work from home and still had to use public transport to get to work. All of these people were more exposed to the virus (as well as potentially exposing others) and had their risk of contracting it multiplied, compare that to the relatively wealthy middle class who could easily work from home and keep themselves and their families safe.

 

That's before even considering mental health, those who live in the countryside and have large gardens and houses obviously have a much easier time of it during lockdown, as well as considering adult social care, care for the elderly and education which will inevitably have seen wider gaps in child development because of vastly different at home circumstances.

 

I'd like to hope that this will pressure the government into abadoning austerity and actively seeking to address these inequalities, but the cynic in me believes they'll just victory lap and high five each other once the vaccine rollout is complete and then just move on.

Anyone wondering where Dido Harding has been hiding for the last few months? We can now see that the woman (married to a Tory MP and whose previous job was to preside over the company responsible for one of the biggest ever data leaks in the UK) in charge of them Natl Institute For Health Protection decided not to bother learning more (or, indeed, anything) about how viruses work. She has claimed that nobody had predicted that the virus would mutate. Despite the fact that mutating is precisely what every other virus since time began has done.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55917793

 

Excellent news, hopefully this will mean there will be a better winter 2021-22.

Edited February 3, 20214 yr by ElevenSnake

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55917793

 

Excellent news, hopefully this will mean there will be a better winter 2021-22.

 

Indeed - I said last month that the experts I've seen discussing the variants were confident that the vaccine could be adapted to defeat them, however that is no reason to let the virus run rampage across the world.

Anyone wondering where Dido Harding has been hiding for the last few months? We can now see that the woman (married to a Tory MP and whose previous job was to preside over the company responsible for one of the biggest ever data leaks in the UK) in charge of them Natl Institute For Health Protection decided not to bother learning more (or, indeed, anything) about how viruses work. She has claimed that nobody had predicted that the virus would mutate. Despite the fact that mutating is precisely what every other virus since time began has done.

I work for Track and Trace and she's left a bunch of pre-recorded messages 'thanking' everyone for their 'hard work'. The entire thing is a shambles. :unsure: I'm extremely grateful to have a job but I cannot believe this was ever seen as a way of containing and eradicating the virus.