That's fair enough but I personally wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of a brand new contest starting with an uneven playing field. If there were say 3 songs with an immediate penalty, how do you determine which semis to split them into? As half of the participants could have an immediate advantage over one song and the other half over 2 songs, it just gets very messy. That's why the penalty must apply to the contest in which the infraction has occurred.

And the ban has to be in place as a deterrent or else it would encourage people who don't qualify for the final in the preceding competition to just give up interest without any subsequent repercussion.

Completely fair point that a semi could be placed in an easier position!

And I 100% get the reason for a ban being in place as it stands. I think my main point here is inclusivity... Are some people here repeated non-voters? If that's the case, why?

I think my main thing is that reminders (be it sent by the host or a mod) around 24 hours before a voting deadline could be standard. I can't pretend that I know how much time goes into hosting the contest or how much time it would take to send the reminders, so I'm absolutely not slamming anyone for choosing to not do it (I've seen people mentioned in posts in the last 2 contests, which is certainly much quicker than sending a PM to each member), I'd just take the host sending out reminders over the setting up of a predictions thread anyday! (Partly because if the host/a mod doesn't set up a predictions thread, I'm sure someone would!)

The bit about deductions in the next contest was very much a side step!

My controversial suggestion is... I think things are in a good place as they are, the mods are doing a great job keeping everyone engaged year after year, and overcomplicating things would do more harm than good

However, I would somehow make things easier and more streamlined for each host. Maybe some kind of standard Google form that automatically tallies everything into a spreadsheet so hosts have more time for creative hosty things?

I don't know how any of that works (and maybe it's not as simple as it sounds), but I do know hosting can be the pits x

I agree with Dobbo. Carry forward deduction of points penalties are a bit uncomfortable for me too. I worry about that getting a little messy and in the long term damaging the integrity of the results with the logic of „well I’m already penalised so why bother voting“.

This system strikes a nice balance between penalty and remembering this is just a bit of meaningless online fun. I would love to get rid of it but there’s some people that consistently failed to vote and because the stick was the only thing keeping them on track (deadline pressure for ADHD in my personal experience trumps time blindness) so the one contest ban has stuck around. Part of the social contract of this contest is that you invest in what other people so passionately send, listen and vote. We threaten to make you sit a month out to ensure that you hold up your end of the contract. But theres always exceptions and we have always been super quick to waive that penalty when asked (and honestly often we proactively do it without needing to be asked). My point is that this is not something we do to be mean at all, and we’d rather not. It’s a fairness mechanism.

The reason reminders aren’t mandatory is because at some point we have to draw a line in the sand to 1) not baby the participants and trust that grown adults have a degree of competency and 2) reduce the burden of hosting the contest for the hosts to keep hosting as manageable as possible so we still have volunteers.

2 minutes ago, blacksquare said:

My controversial suggestion is... I think things are in a good place as they are, the mods are doing a great job keeping everyone engaged year after year, and overcomplicating things would do more harm than good

Oh, I think the contest mostly works very well! Reminders being standard is really my only suggestion, my thoughts just went on a tangent to go try to consider that it's one thing extra for the host to remember 🤣

4 minutes ago, blacksquare said:

However I would somehow make things easier and more streamlined for each host. Maybe some kind of standard Google Form that automatically tallies everything into a spreadsheet so the hosts have more time for hosty things? I don't know how any of that works, but I do know hosting can be the pits x

This is a great idea! It's definitely possible (and I'd be happy to help with it), though I don't know who usually hosts the Googley bits!

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Juranamo

The ability to tag people made issuing reminders in 180 infinitely easier than the old system of PM'ing, however it was still a faff and took me a lot of time as I can't remember the ins and outs of everyone's username styling at that moment in time (and with 24 hours to go I still had about 35 odd people to find the exact usernames for, cross reference their countries, and tag).

I do on this occasion feel bad if the reason some people missed out was due to the site outage and they therefore ran out of time or forgot to check back, but it was mostly ok yesterday at least.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by gooddelta

A side note - the ability to keep this contest going in such an efficient manner month after month is nothing short of astonishing. I know it's a well oiled machine but the effort put in appears superhuman to me.

27 minutes ago, Colm said:

A side note - the ability to keep this contest going in such an efficient manner month after month is nothing short of astonishing. I know it's a well oiled machine but the effort put in appears superhuman to me.

Oh, it does to me too! Almost every aspect works perfectly in my view!

I was just putting a suggestion out there (which seemingly only I agree with, but that's often the case with my ideas haha). I won't lose sleep over it either way, this was the first contest I saw without reminders. I had just assumed that it was something that was part of it before now!

9 minutes ago, Juranamo said:

Oh, it does to me too! Almost every aspect works perfectly in my view!

I was just putting a suggestion out there (which seemingly only I agree with, but that's often the case with my ideas haha). I won't lose sleep over it either way, this was the first contest I saw without reminders. I had just assumed that it was something that was part of it before now!

Of course. It's definitely worth raising to be discussed because who knows how many other people depend on reminders - rightly or wrongly.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Colm

Having the shoutbox back again would be useful for notifications about song contests, listening sessions and other Buzzjack events (as it used to be).

I had a spinoff idea - BJSC Live 'One Night Only / One Listen Only'.

A bit like Eurovision for a casual viewer: one three hour show on a predetermined evening so as many people can join as possible. The songs are revealed and then you would immediately listen together on Synctube, vote live within a 15-minute window (while interval songs are played ofc) via some sort of Google spreadsheet so it's live updating. And then the host announces the total results in reverse order like the way the Eurovision televote is revealed. There wouldn't be any time consuming totting up needed if it was all there on a spreadsheet working out the forumlas as the votes come in live presumably. Then at the end all of the indivdual scores could be revealed on the forum.

Many people would have to play this differently to BJSC and other spinoffs I think as you'd need something high impact that would grab people on a listenthrough on their one and only listen, and try and avoid people speaking over it and going off on tangents etc!

I have no idea whether it would work logistically as would require people to sit there for all three hours to listen to the songs. Perhaps you could cap the competition at 30 entries first come, first served for people who know they would be around on the chosen evening, and limit entries to 4 minutes long, maybe also add a 5-minute break after every 10 songs so people can leave their screen for refreshments etc...

LOVE THAT!

Wonder if that could maybe be ran instead of Buzzfestivalen, which (because of the length) ended up sucking a bit of life out of BJSC 176. This would solve that problem.

Would also be more than happy to trial run something new for the summer interval ~

3 minutes ago, RobBot said:

LOVE THAT!

Wonder if that could maybe be ran instead of Buzzfestivalen, which (because of the length) ended up sucking a bit of life out of BJSC 176. This would solve that problem.

Good idea to do it as a replacement for that for one year (could even keep the three minute rule from there to keep things snappy, as even with a cap of 40 the songs would still only take up two hours). I'd be happy to host it in the summer if somebody else could create such a spreadsheet that would allow for the live vote tracking!

Edited April 13Apr 13 by gooddelta

That's a fantastic idea! I guess the tricky thing would be arranging a time for everyone to be able to listen at the same time*, as most of us work/have our outside Buzzjack life/possibly different time zones might make it tricky for some... But what a brilliant idea!

But then, I'm sure anyone entering would make sure that they were free for it.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a "rest of Buzzjack World" vote too, where any registered country that wasn't able to enter due to maximum capacity being reached or whatever reason (but wishes to listen along) could contribute to a rest of world vote similar to eurovision too? (Obviously that would mean a more complicated spreadsheet, and it might not be something that we want to introduce, but it's an idea!)

Edited April 13Apr 13 by Juranamo

2 minutes ago, Juranamo said:

That's a fantastic idea! I guess the tricky thing would be arranging a time for everyone to be able to listen at the same time, as most of us work/have our outside Buzzjack life/possibly different time zones might make it tricky for some... But what a brilliant idea!

Yes, for sure it's not perfect as some people won't be free on the evening. Maybe a Sunday evening would be the preferred option, but it could be discussed more at the time, maybe with some other options given.

I just love the idea of doing a 'live' event, as we manage to get 20 on for listenthroughs sometimes, and 30 or more following a live final results thread live so it feels doable. It's just the point of having to sit and listen for two hours straight to the songs, but hopefully a short break after every 10 entries would help. Sure it could be ironed out anyway.

Just now, gooddelta said:

Yes, for sure it's not perfect as some people won't be free on the evening. Maybe a Sunday evening would be the preferred option, but it could be discussed more at the time, maybe with some other options given.

I just love the idea of doing a 'live' event, as we manage to get 20 on for listenthroughs sometimes, and 30 or more following a live final results thread live so it feels doable. It's just the point of having to sit and listen for two hours straight to the songs, but hopefully a short break after every 10 entries would help. Sure it could be ironed out anyway.

Post edited above!

I feel if participating in the listenthrough was the only option to listen, you'd naturally get a higher attendance there too! Love love this idea!

6 minutes ago, Juranamo said:

That's a fantastic idea! I guess the tricky thing would be arranging a time for everyone to be able to listen at the same time*, as most of us work/have our outside Buzzjack life/possibly different time zones might make it tricky for some... But what a brilliant idea!

But then, I'm sure anyone entering would make sure that they were free for it.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a "rest of Buzzjack World" vote too, where any registered country that wasn't able to enter due to maximum capacity being reached or whatever reason (but wishes to listen along) could contribute to a rest of world vote similar to eurovision too? (Obviously that would mean a more complicated spreadsheet, and it might not be something that we want to introduce, but it's an idea!)

Yes, and obviously if someone submits an entry and then isn't able to join at the last minute, there could maybe a small deduction from their score rather than it being withdrawn altogether. With any 'live' format I don't think it could ever fully please everyone unfortunately.

And yes, a 'rest of' vote could work too (those countries could go into a pot I suppose and then presented as one normal additional vote, so the song with most from the 'rest of' vote would get 18 and so on), really depends on how popular it would end up being though and accordingly, what points system is used. You might not get more than 30 anyway due to needing to have the chosen evening free to participate, so it might end up being a small-scale novelty. And also maybe on a first run trial basis it would be easier on the host to keep it to the entering countries to keep it simple. But all ideas/suggestions/tweaks are welcome!

I think it’s a great idea!! Would be cool to trial a different approach to the contest as a one-off spin off and just have fun with it

1 hour ago, gooddelta said:

The songs are revealed and then you would immediately listen together on Synctube, vote live within a 15-minute window (while interval songs are played ofc) via some sort of Google spreadsheet so it's live updating. And then the host announces the total results in reverse order like the way the Eurovision televote is revealed. There wouldn't be any time consuming totting up needed if it was all there on a spreadsheet working out the forumlas as the votes come in live presumably. Then at the end all of the indivdual scores could be revealed on the forum.

Love it

Me editing other people’s votes last minute to make sure my 18 finally wins